Piano - Locked Hands

[Greg]

This is something that I want to improve on.

I know there are several ways to do this. But I haven't really gotten comfortable with the more difficult methods.

Perhaps it's Red Garland who does it the easist way - and that is to play a four-note voicing with one hand and playing the octave note in the other.

For example right hand on a C7 might be E, A, Bb, D while the left plays a D one octave below. Yeah, I know this is an example of a rootles voicing. But maybe you get the point. One hand plays four notes, the other plays the octave. Simple.

Another method that I'm not too good at is taking three or four notes in the right. Dropping one from the middle and playing it in the left.

I need some clarification here. Because it just doesn't sound right all the tiem. I know it depends on the melody note. If I'm in the key of C, and want to use this voicing on a D melody note, then I need to use a diminished voicing, right?

Maybe somebody knows what I'm talking about, and can present this in an easier way to understand, or even introduce a better way of playing in a locked hand position. I just want that full sound.

A little help?

[brucechambers]

Hmmm, Greg, I exercise these chords every day. Even when you are away from the piano, practice stretching your hand and on the keyboard, what I like to do is stretch both my hands as far as they will go. Play one key with your thumb and go as high as you can with your pinky. You will see right away that it pays off very quickly.

Now, what is rootles voicing? I never heard of it, but you said you are playing a C7 with E, A, Bb, D? Shouldn't it be E,G,Bb,C? I don't know what chord a E, A, Bb, D makes. Thats not even Csus. I think what chord you are making is a Bb6 with a diminished 5th. Yeah, that's it. Bb6-5

No wonder your C7 does not sound right. LOL. Just kidding. I suggest doing the stretching exercises with the right hand and then your left hand should be good to play any key in the octave.

[Greg]

Bruce,

Now you are my friend, so I can say this without reservation that my reply is going to inform just as much as it will re-affirm what I have learned.

Firstly, that C7 - as crazy as it sounds, it is quite simple, the A is the sixth of the rootless voicing, and it always sounds nice when it's next to that dominant seventh.

Yes, I skipped the G. But that is just for a more common jazz sound. The fifth never defines the chord, so to heck with it.

Here's the thing to remember, the root, 3rd, and 7th, are going to define our chords more than any other notes.

So if I want to play locked hands on those notes it will be a piece of cake.

Actually the fifth is fair game too. So any voicing with the 1,3,5, or 7 is going to work out fine when I drop the 2nd or 3rd note in the right and play in the left instead (yeah, I know this applies to piano mainly.)

But on those "in between" notes, I need to find a good sound. This is what throws me off all the time. I use diminished drop voicings, but if I'm playing over anything but a major scale I get all screwed up. It just doesn't sound right.

So I thought instead of trying to be so meticulous, maybe there is something easier and faster to remember to get that full sound.

I'm seriously a geek about this stuff, so if you are a stranger to these forums and reading this post (not you, Bruce. I'm talking to anyone else that is visiting this post for the first time), and think, "huh?", just consider yourself lucky. Maybe I'm searching too much, and just need to lay back and play.

[brucechambers]

You learn something new every day. You just taught me something, Greg. I, too, am looking for that great sound and can never seem to find it. I will have to look up the rootless sound. I hope you find the sound you are looking for.

[Greg]

Well, it's actually not rootless. It's just rootless in the right hand voicing.

But these chords are nice - (3, 6, dom7, 9) because we can still get away with the tri-tone substitutions.

For example, in the example of E, G, Bb, D (with C in the base) we have a nice C9 voicing.

But if we use the tri-tone substitution (the 3rd and 7th always have a partner base note), which in this case would be Gb, because Gb and C both share the same 3rd and 7th, right?

Anyhow the tri-tone substitution chord gives us even a more interesting sound.

The same notes (E, G, Bb, D) with Gb in the base gives us a Gb(#9, #5).

Nice colors.

Anyhow, you know what I'm thinking right now is that we have all these piano, guitar and drum lessons availalbe in the Platinum Plan, they are delivered monthly. Some of them are really brilliant, with sound samples and diagrams.

It's another thing that is pretty much just being wasted right now.

Do you think it should be made available to all members. That would of course make less value to the Platinum Plan which is already completely cheap (just one-time $6.97).

Bruce, I just can't type all the thoughts running through my head, which is why I keep saying we need to hook up by phone again.

[brucechambers]

Call me on my cell when you have a chance.

[Greg]

cybersonica,

I'm sorry. I deleted your post somehow. I don't know what happened.

I replied to you, but it showed my post as your name, and then I deleted my post, but it deleted both of ours. I have no clue what that was about.

I hope you'll post here again. Anyhow you were rigth, I did mean a sharp ninth. Hey, it is about time, someone replied to this post.

I really enjoyed your reply, and I'm dissapointed about the delete blunder.

It's great to share some piano ideas here.

How about some nice turnarounds?

I'll share one: It's nothing fantastic, but it provides a nice sound, and it can be practiced and memorized quickly.

Just like a I- VI - II - V, but we'll imagine the II was dominant and take the tri-tone substitution giving us

I - VI - bVI - V (is that how you'd write it? I'm way out of practice).

I like to use upperhand voicings for the VI - bVI - V so for the left hand play the 3rd, and 7th (the tri-tones) and in the right hand play a major chord that is a whole step below the 7th (in the left).

Example in key of C:

C , A7, Ab7, G7

Do whatever you want with the C, but for the A7, play G and C# in the left. And C, F, A in the right (that makes your F Major chord, which is the whole step below the dominant 7 in the left).

I personally like the sound with A on top, but you can invert the chord however you like.

It sounds good to double up on that F in the right, so you might try C, F, A, C.

Now just take everything down a half step for the same positioning in Ab7, and then down a half-step once more for the G7.

It looks strange on the computer, but once you visualize it on the keys, it's easy to produce.

Please keep ideas coming here - any technique or level is welcomed.