Indie Music

yourockradio · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:04 am Post subject:

Listen to the show Dennis Logan just did with Paul Lani. Paul is a MAJOR producer! Produced everyone from James Brown to U2. Read between the lines.

Forget about free crap. It is a cop out. Get a following the good old fashioned way... WORK FOR IT! Clicking a mouse can help, but only to an extent. Get off yer ass and promote properly, create music worth hearing in the first place. If you can't do it all yourself, hire someone who can.

This business costs money. You aren't going to get anywhere on free-for- all websites. You need to invest in a music career. If you don't have the money, then get out of this business because it ain't for you. Just be happy doing it as a hobby and quit whining.

The only reason majors are going the free route is because they too stupid to figure it out. They have a lot of money and no brains.

Don't believe me, I don't care.

IB_Staff · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject:

yourockradio · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:01 am Post subject:

You have interesting points. The bottom line is this:

90% of people on the Internet will never buy anything.

I have said it before. So what is the solution? Get them off of the Internet. Get them away from the damn computer screen and become part of their family. Win their hearts and minds, as the old Vietnam war slogan went, and you will become a part of their village.

That my friend takes money. Look, if you never play gigs with live people you are never going to be anything in real time to them. You write interesting music, it is not pop music however. This really doesn't fully apply to all of the compositions you create, BUT.... You can change parts of that if you choose. You are talented enough.

That being said, the type of music you do is very niche stuff. There is a way to win hearts and minds, but it is not going to be found on the Internet in any case. You will attain some following, but not what you truly dream about. For that you are going to have to create another strategy. This forum is not a place do that, it is, after all, the Internet.

People clicking a mouse are not in the competition, free or iTunes or Forte, or whatever. Your marketing depth can not attach itself and get the face time needed no matter how many mouse clicks or websites you join. Part of the reason is that you are generally preaching to the choir. Your supposed "market" is others with similar goals drenching an already saturated area of the Internet.

The dynamics are crystal clear here, this is not rocket science. Major label schmucks are diluting the free download market, this lessens your exposure prospects to a great degree. This is by design, it is not an accident. In order to sell music you are going to have to create a loyal following. This is a given, no matter what. Then you have to give people a delivery method that they will actually use.

What the labels feel they need to do is devalue you as an artist, and then they can capture the lions share of this download market. The trick is to beat them at their own game. This is done by #1 Creating a product of competitive weight, and #2 designing a delivery method that guarantees that people can get value for their purchase, and at the same time have an easy experience purchasing the product.

This crap is so easy my 5 year old Grandson could figure it out. The main issue is organizing the players on a large enough scale to accomplish the enmass, viral, buzz, needed to lift this from concept to an actual profit model.

As far as this forum is concerned... I give up trying to convince anyone that I know the answer. My solution is to just work with the people who believe in what I am saying and I have pretty much given up telling anyone else.

So (My now) good friend, it is a little of the "old" mixed with outside-of-the-box methodologies that will lift us from this morass of a wasteland that has become the music business. Everything else is blowing hot air up our ass.

IB_Staff · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:28 am Post subject:

yep, 100% there

Live gigs for me, I would have to pay to rent out a hall, bar, park or some shed in the desert. Then kidnap a few, chain them down and ...

mostly what has worked for live gigs, is parties I throw for my wife or special events but you know your friends will always come to free food, drink and of course, take your CD, ask you to sign it but since they are friends, it's free. Funny isn't it?

gigs for what I do just is not going to happen, I could move, I could do a lot of other things too, like buy a place to play in. Oh I did that already, about 10 years ago now. Might do that again too if enough money happens to fall in my lap but does that a sucessful band make? nope

Now if I was playing Country or shear R&R (even that is getting hard in my area now to find gigs), not a problem. But that is not me, what I like to play (oh key word there, like) or where my talents are. If not for the day job, that allows me to be so picky, I would be doing country to pay the bills.

see it's not that hard, as you say, a 5 year can figure it out

the key is, for most too, to find that niche, work it, do it, do it as best as you can with what you got to do it with and keep poking at it till it happens

to that end, I have many bumps on my head, often called bonehead I am

I want to change the patch of the choir here. Maybe I can alter the filter a bit or modulate that envelope, add a lfo or two, change the attack and decay ... but in the end, there still are people here who want to do something with the music.

you know where to find me, I think by now, everyone knows too, I am hard at it, working it Wink

oh, I can not wait till you split your side laughting at the video I made for that track I just put on here at MF. As soon as I figure out how to put it up, I will. I decided to leave myself out of it. As I blogged it on myspace, who the heck cares about me other than the music. I did include the guitar player and my wife on keys. Rolling Eyes

dale

yourockradio · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:41 am Post subject:

I have an answer for that, (like you wouldn't expect me to have one?), however, I am not gonna discuss this stuff here anymore for awhile. I am coming over to say hi and hang out, but I have my own forum to run and not enough time in a day.

Like I said though, the Internet is b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t. when it comes to sales. Dale, you and I both know this is true. What we need to do is build more effective artist development programs, and using the Net is OK for that. The rest of it... Well, I am tired of talking about it. Currently, I am too involved in changing it.

I am literally done talking. The time is now for change, and I must keep my focus on that. You understand, I am sure.

I am also sure that a lot of people around here are tired of me anyway. So I will just come by to say howdy and mind my own business (right lol ).

Didzis · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:07 am Post subject:

Hi,

First of all, please excuse me for my terrible English, but I want to explain how to give away your mp3 and earn money same time.

Here in Latvia we have project of free downlad music website.
Idea is following:
1) From the side of consumer it is great to have free music from the first source, not 100 times downloaded copy from DC++ whatever.

2) From the side of musician I am interested to let consumer to get my music as cheap as possible - the range of my listeners grows, but if it is free, then each download is as a vote for my music - really democratic vote, not based on - "I like it, but I do not have money to download it".

3) Problem - as a musician I need money to eat and to live, to record new music etc.

4) Lets tie it together with problem of others. In this case - product sellers (any item - banking, plumbers, contractors, food producers etc.). Their problem is good advertising. Is TV advertise good? No. You prefere to do not see these anoying advertises for huge price for product sellers.

5) So You are consumer. You know that at this web page you'll get music from the first source, but only you are forced to do during download is to watch some advertise. This is better then just watchig to download progress line. So you get track, but advertiser get audithory. LET THEY PAY.

6) I, as amusician, am happy to get 20c per track if downloads are numerous. Example - I am sure - my 12 track album will be downladed at least 5 000 times (I'll limit number of downlads) - its free, so why not? Together 60 000 downloads... 12 000$. Not bad (my expenses for last album was less then 5000$. My sponsor - advertizer is happy - 60 000 views. His expenses - 0,20$ + 0,08$ (to site holder and their taxes) + 0,08$ (to authors - this is rate in Latvia) = 0,36$ per download. Total - 21600$ for guaranteed 60 000 views of his add.

7) After 60 000 downloads for consumer price price track comes back to the regular 0,70$. So - be between first 5000 downloaders!

This is just an example. We had negotiations with managers of one bank. They like this idea.

+ I'll press just around 1000 good made CDs for collectors and people who feel the difference between 192 mbps MP3 and good quality CD record to sell for 20$ as very limited edition.

Not bad income for indie artist.

IB_Staff · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject:

Is that not like selling the paper to wrap the free fish?

Again, should not music be something that is stand alone?
Something that is of value?
not something you got to bundle it with to sell it.

Do we plan on selling paintings the same way?
Get this work from Dali free, pay only $1m for the frame.

Books?
Buy my book, it's free but you got to pay the shipping. That will be $15.00.

Something is not right in that system.

dale

Didzis · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject:

Do we plan on selling paintings the same way?
Get this work from Dali free, pay only $1m for the frame.

___________________

1) I'm not Dali in music, just painter behind the corner. When I'll be Dali I'll sell not only my music but even my shoes to be photographed.
2) Paper copies of Dali's paintings could be free too. Why not? Does he have 1000 originals of the same painting? Even I will sell "originals" (good quality CDs) for good price.
3) Lets others pay for your listener. We should be flexibe. Other business goes this way. For example cheep airflights. Lot of money compensate "wrapping paper".

IB_Staff · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject:

yourockradio · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:11 am Post subject:

Stupid business model.

Advertiser backed music. Not an original idea.

Like I said, I'm pretty much done explaining anything. It falls on deaf ears. Too many people out there who just don't get it.

Oh well.

IB_Staff · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:35 am Post subject:

Reconsiderate · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject:

.
.
.

There is something very, very insightful about this statement:

Reconsiderate · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

yourockradio · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:52 am Post subject:

Ad supported sales are not all bad. In fact, if you plan to make money on the Internet, then plan on being an "Ad Whore" in some form or the other. Unfortunately... That is the ONLY business on the Internet! Sad, but true.

Now here is something to sink you teeth into... GET THEM OFF OF THE F'N COMPUTER!!!!!! There. Now you have something.

90% of people on the Internet WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING!!!!!!!!! 90%

What are you gonna do about it? Huh? What's your plan to remedy that? Huh?

The only way you will EVER make ANY money is through ad supported crap on the Internet. That is the way it is. I do it, we all do it. There is no other business model.

Name one! Come on... Name one!!! There aren't any. People have not come to grips with the fact that people, for the most part, are AFRAID of the Internet! That's right, they are SCARED of it!

So how to you overcome that one? Huh? Fear of loss is the greatest fear of all. People are afraid to lose their identity on the Internet!

The answer to the question is... YOU WILL NEVER OVERCOME IT!

Can you hear me now?