A neverending/re-occuring problem I keep having..

[onlyme666]

Hmmm so I keep having the same problem with every song I write.
..and I guess it comes down to the mechinics of how a song will work..

Now for the big question:
How do words/lyrics work with music?

I know how they work but I don't understand the necessary elements that need to be present in all songs. I am guessing each style will have a trait but each one must have something in common that will need to be present.
I understand timing.
Should words be treated exactly the same as a soloing guitar?


Each time I write a song things start well but then something seems to be missing with each song and I lose heart and I cannot return to the song as I end up getting VERY wound up. hmmm

I have got hold of a few music theory books but most are all on the surface or so far in it just do not have a clue after reading 7 or 8 pages.. and then it is not in the area I am wanting to know about..

so! I thought I would ask you people!

[yourockradio]

You need a melody to start with. Then what you do is phrase the words to fit that melody... See? You can do it phonetically using syllables in the words. You can count the syllables for the next line you write to see if it will fit in the melody once you establish the basic feel of the verse.

Once you have the basic story idea of your lyrics you can then find words that fit using syllables. You may have to use synonyms or alternate words. It is also good if you can sing, it doesn't matter if you are a great singer as long as you can sing it out in a rudimentary fashion to establish that your words will work with the melody.

There are patterns for songs like "verse, verse' chorus, verse, verse, chorus, out", etc. The chorus is a hook. The hook is what stands out in a fans mind and your song needs to mention the title at least once in the song, and this is usually the hook itself. You can usually use something like Band in a Box to grab melodies as a patter to write your songs with. Band in a Box rules for this kind of thing and is really inexpensive!

If you write me at yourock@yourockradio.com I also have a great program for writing lyrics that gives you alternate words to use with a click of a mouse, and it's a freebie.

And no... lead guitar and a singer are the same thing in a song. In recording engineering they actually are in the same frequency range as well. Usually lead guitar acts in place of a singer in parts of the song, like a give and take. Check out BB King as an example of that style of writing. He sings a line, plays a line, and so on. They have a name for it but I forgot it. Talk back something, something? He is talking to the guitar and it talks back.

A melody can be a guitar, but it is usually a rhythm bed rather than lead. With bass, drum and other instruments you have the elements of harmony, lead, rhythm. Your job as a lyricist is the melody line and that usually mimics you to some degree. It lays the foundation in other words.

Books and theory are fine as far as it goes. But a natural feel for phrasing your words as a melody are the essential skills. That and understanding basic song structure and the variants. You can structure a song any way you want, but these patterns are what our minds have become accustomed to, there is an expectation that a song will form some sort of pattern

There have been hit songs that are outside the norm of verse, chorus.... etc., but they are the exception and not the rule.

[onlyme666]

when you say melody I take it you mean for instance a repeating verse/a collection of chords played after each other that would go with a tempo?

so for instance you could write the melody on a piano/guitar and then write a piece on with a piano that you could your turn words into and when you were writing this you were specifically thinking of it as word?

you said I can count the syllables to see if the words would fit but what is this in connection with? the last line, the tempo?
sorry if I am sounding kind of dumb or very basic but this isn't to clear to me.

my problem i think is trying to be to original, i am trying to not get to influenced by the song structures i mostly listen to.

[Reconsiderate]

[onlyme666]

Thanks for that, I had the same idea before.
I found that the words that I was writing were quite personal and it was nice that I approached things that way but it was really hindering me from singing up.. so I thought I would TRY and write some more upbeat, calm "hey this doesn't matter!" style songs.
I just couldn't sing the songs I just didn't feel it. haha nightmare.

I am also starting to think the programs and instruments I am using might be letting me down, when I sing with live musicians I am fine but based on a computer something is missing. I even find playing guitar and singing easier..
not much I can do about that though where I live you cannot mic up an amp or anything.

[yourockradio]

Friend... If you do not know what a melody is, then you need to start there.

No, it is not a bass line or tempo. Those are the rhythm. Yes, it is much like tapping out a song on the piano, the piano is a lead instrument, but can be harmony/rhythm also. The issue right now is that your understanding of basic theory needs to be studied a bit.

You do not need to be able to read music or even understand how to create it, but you do need to know what the parts are and basic Chorus/Verse dynamics are. i.e., (intro -aabaabaa bridge(c) - b-outro). Without this you are bound to write lyrics that will never work in a real song. These are called poems, not lyrically oriented.

Take "Mary had a Little Lamb". Hum that tune to yourself... That is a melody. Counting the syllables in that you could right a line like... Henry Does Not Give a Damn, His Momma is a Ho... Now hum that out using the melody of Mary Had... It fits. Understand? The words don't matter as long as the "Phrasing" or syllables can work. Eminem does not rhyme all of the time in is music, but he has the gift of Phrasing the words so they sound as-if they belong there. That is "Phrasing".

If you are writing rap style, then your phrasing is the key, Rhyming is not necessary all of the time, but you must make the words fit the song. You can learn this stuff, but there is a lot to be said for the "gift" in this area. It is not for everybody. If it was. then people wouldn't be paid so well for doing it. In rap and hip hop you can write to the "tempo", but technically in that structure it shares space with the melody, or replaces it altogether. Different strokes for different folks.

No one can make you a good song/lyrics writer. You can learn the basic theory, but if you do not have the aptitude or gift for it, then no amount of instruction created by man can make you a talented songwriter. If you have to go that route, then you are aiming at mechanics without soul. People do it, but they struggle a lot.

Of course, getting paid? You don't want me to go there. I am trying to help you not discourage you.

[yourockradio]

Dammit Greg! Take this 10 min limit crap off PLEASE!!! What is the damn point?

[onlyme666]

[yourockradio]

Glad you appreciate it. I am not a very good teacher, I am impatient and I don't give a damn really.

Listen to my radio show friend. That will answer your questions.